Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/10/1993 03:50 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
March 10, 1993
3:50 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Drue Pearce
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Al Adams
Senator Fred Zharoff
Senator Dave Donley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings for Board of Game Members: Jack
Didrickson, Ernest Polley, Anne K. Ruggles, and Roger
Huntington.
Presentation by Water and Wastewater Advisory Board
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record.
WITNESS REGISTER
Roger Huntington
P.O. Box 10
Galena, Alaska 99741
Anne K. Ruggles
P.O. Box 82950
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
Jack Didrickson
P.O. Box 712
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Ernie Polley
634 W 12th
Juneau, Alaska 99801
John George
Alaska Outdoor Council
9515 Moraine Way
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Didrickson's
confirmation.
Jim Baldwin, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Mr. Didrickson's legal
position.
Jerry Luckhaupt, Legislative Counsel
Legislative Affairs Agency
130 Seward Street, #402
Juneau, Alaska 99801-2105
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Mr. Didrickson's legal
position.
Hugh Doogan
359 Slater Street
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Board of Game
confirmations.
John Hargesheimer
P.O. Box 10134
Fairbanks, Alaska 99710
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave Water and Wastewater Advisory
Board presentation.
Floyd Damron
CH2M Hill
2550 Denali St., 8th Floor
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Water and Wastewater.
Jim Berg
18765 May Ct. Circle
Eagle River, Alaska 99577
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Water and Wastewater.
Eric Lindboe
8650 Glenn Hwy.
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Water and Wastewater.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-14, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:50 p.m and announced they would begin with the
Board of Game members.
ROGER HUNTINGTON, Yukon River, via teleconference, said he
was interested in serving on the Game Board and would answer
questions. There were no questions and SENATOR MILLER
thanked him and introduced Anne K. Ruggles.
Number 48
ANNE K. RUGGLES, Fairbanks, said she was a professional
biologist and professional educator.
SENATOR LEMAN asked her to share her thoughts on elk
transplanting, moose farming, and intensive game management.
MS. RUGGLES said, in general, she would rather not see
legislative action that mandated the Board to take specific
actions. The Board needs to consider relevant biological
and ecological information for any given area.
She said that intensive management is a tool that can be
used if the fiscal and public support is available. She is
not opposed to intensive management as a philosophy.
However, Alaska is an arctic ecosystem where most nutrients
are tied up in dead organic matter. She has not seen any
areas in Alaska in which she would consider using intensive
management as a tool.
Number 124
SENATOR MILLER asked her if she favored predator control and
which methods did she favor. MS. RUGGLES responded that
predator control is a viable management tool. The tricky
part is deciding when you have the ecological conditions in
which predator control will work, because it will not work
everywhere under all circumstances. She said if you do
decide to use control, it ought to be efficient and humane.
Helicopters allow you to make as clean and clear a shot as
can be made, she added.
SENATOR MILLER asked if she would support aerial hunting.
She said she did not support aerial "hunting," by the
public, but supported the Department doing the control
activities.
Number 230
JACK DIDRICKSON, Palmer resident, said he started with the
Alaska Department of Fish and Game in 1959 as a game
biologist and retired in 1987. He wanted to continue being
on the Game Board, because he thinks everything is directed
back to people. He believed that wolves and other animals
belong to the public. He thought the permits for predator
control should be issued to the people, except for
situations like the 40 mile caribou herd where it is only
possible to get to an animal with a helicopter.
Number 266
SENATOR LEMAN said the legislature had to choose between him
and Mr. Polley and asked him to state why they should choose
him.
MR. DIDRICKSON said that he didn't resign. He was just told
he wasn't going to be on the Board any longer. He does not
know why. He wanted to protect his name and reputation.
Number 299
ERNIE POLLEY, Juneau resident, said he would love to have
the opportunity to serve on the Game Board with Jack
Didrickson. He said his post secondary career was in game
management and he was familiar with game and resource
allocation issues in Alaska.
Number 323
SENATOR MILLER asked if he was in favor of predator control.
MR. POLLEY said he agreed with predator control being a
management tool. SENATOR MILLER asked him how he felt about
the methods used in predator control. MR. POLLEY said
ideally you would use the most humane and cost efficient
method available. Politically speaking, however, if the
public was not supportive for whatever reason of that
method, it just couldn't be an option at that time.
Abandoning predator control is totally inappropriate.
Number 355
JOHN GEORGE, Alaska Outdoor Council, said although they have
nothing against Mr. Polley, they do support Mr. Didrickson,
as a matter of policy. He is entitled to stay on the Board
unless there is a finding that he is not a qualified
candidate.
SENATOR PEARCE asked if there was a formal letter from the
Governor to the legislature asking the legislature to remove
Mr. Didrickson's name. SENATOR MILLER answered no, but they
do have an opinion from a legislative attorney saying Mr.
Didrickson is a viable candidate.
Number 374
SENATOR FRANK asked if their recommendations for the other
candidates in the letter dated January 9, 1993 were still
relevant. MR. GEORGE said it was still relevant and he
noted a letter dated March 9, 1993 that specifically
supported Mr. Didrickson.
Number 385
JIM BALDWIN, Assistant Attorney General, said their
interpretation of the event is that the legislature has only
one name before them which is Ernie Polley.
The meaning of "appointment" is the focus of the
disagreement, MR. BALDWIN said. He explained that an
appointment is made up of 3 or 4 acts and before it's made
final, it can be withdrawn by the Governor.
The legislature takes up the question of confirmation upon
transmittal of a name from the Governor. Until there is a
conveyance of a permanent office, there is no vested right
in that office which would give an individual standing to
bring an action to contest title to that office. There has
been no removal of Mr. Didrickson for cause from his office.
His name has simply not been submitted to the legislature.
MR. BALDWIN emphasized that there could be litigation over
the validity of any action these individuals partake in if a
question remains regarding the appointment. If the
legislature votes to confirm Mr. Polley, the best and most
unassailable legal answer to his title to office would be
that upon adjournment of the legislature, he would be fully
clothed with the powers, because at that point Mr.
Didrickson's name would not have not been taken up or
confirmed, and he would have lost all claim to the office
any way.
Number 460
SENATOR PEARCE asked if he had seen anything in writing that
explains why the Governor chose not to send Mr. Didrickson's
name to the legislature. MR. BALDWIN said he had no idea
what the motivation might be. He didn't think a reason was
required.
SENATOR PEARCE stated that Mr. Didrickson had been acting as
a voting Board member and asked what was the legal standing
of everything the Board had done since he sat with them.
MR. BALDWIN said that every action they took was valid,
because it was taken pursuant to 39.05.080 which gives him
an interim right to serve on the Board until fully
confirmed. This is a very limited right to that office.
MR. BALDWIN said the Department's interpretation was based
on Alaskan cases and Alaska history and a consistent line of
interpretation.
SENATOR PEARCE said her counsel to him was to go to the
Governor and suggest we stick with the person who has been
serving on the Board and not even get into this battle with
the legislature.
SENATOR MILLER asked if Mr. Didrickson was confirmed on the
floor, what would his advice to the Governor be? MR.
BALDWIN said he wasn't sure what it would be, but there
might be a cloud over his claim to the office, at least.
Number 507
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Counsel, said he did sight
Alaska cases for his opinion which says the Governor
executed this last act when he appointed Mr. Didrickson in
the interim. Both the constitution and statutes say Mr.
Didrickson was entitled to his office at that time and he is
entitled to serve until the legislature fails to confirm or
until the Governor can remove him for cause. He commented
that it was odd that Mr. Didrickson will be a lame duck
member of the Board until the end of session which didn't
seem to be right.
Number 545
HUGH DOOGAN, Fairbanks, supported Susan Entsminger, Jack
Didrickson, Roger Huntington, Ernie Polley, and Anne
Ruggles, because he thought they would represent all the
people of Alaska and not special interests. He supported
the bounty system of predator control, because it would help
people subsidize their income.
Number 564
SENATOR MILLER thanked everyone for their participation and
announced they would next take up the Water and Wastewater
Works Advisory Board.
JOHN HARGESHEIMER, Board member, said their purpose before
the Committee was to introduce themselves and explain their
duties. The Board advises the Department of Environmental
Conservation and is made up of professional engineers,
operators, and water and wastewater utility managers from
all over the state. He, then, introduced Floyd Damron, Mark
Buggins, Eric Lindboe, John Miko, Ernst Mueller, and Jim
Berg, Water Board members in the audience.
TAPE 93-14, SIDE B
Number 580
MR. HARGESHEIMER said their primary purposes are operator
certification, training issues, and funding. The primary
message they want to deliver is that they are a source of
information and resources the legislators could use more.
Number 569
SENATOR LEMAN asked about the man who died in Hooper Bay
from malfunctioning fluoridation equipment. MR.
HARGESHEIMER said one of their main concerns is that
operators of these huge multimillion dollar facilities need
to be properly trained and certified. The Hooper Bay
incident most likely happened because the remote maintenance
position was vacant at the time the incident occurred. The
Soldotna chlorine situation is another example of what they
feel is an operator training and certification issue.
Number 515
SENATOR FRANK asked him about the septic system approval
issue. MR. HARGESHEIMER said that was not a direct issue
with the Board.
Number 498
FLOYD DAMRON, Board member, said that bush dysentery is
rampant. Hepatitis is also around. Bush communities do not
have running water and sewer like we have in our major
communities.
SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Hargesheimer's opinion on what they
should be working towards in light of the limited budget.
MR. HARGESHEIMER replied there are new requirements from the
federal level in both water and waste water and prioritizing
costs is very difficult. They should focus on providing
minimal levels of both water and waste water services.
JIM BERG, Board member, said with the primacy regulations
passing, of 200 rural systems only 5 had qualified
operators. That means there are 195 systems out there
without qualified operators. He encouraged them to use the
Board as a resource to find out what new regulations were
coming out and what could be done.
MR. HARGESHEIMER said if you can get operators knowledgeable
and trained on what they do have, they can not only protect
the capital asset, they can identify the public health
issues when they become public health issues. They can then
help their village decide what to do with the funds that
they have.
Number 404
MR. DAMRON said facilities should not be put into a
community that is not contributing some portion of the cost
of that facility, either in money or in-kind service. He
said they needed more than $1 billion in new construction to
meet the regulations on the books today and EPA has more
regulations coming. He personally thought a community
should contribute at least 10%.
MR. HARGESHEIMER agreed that 10% participation should be the
minimum.
Number 344
SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Ernie Mueller his opinion of DEC
permit procedures, etc. MR. MUELLER said his communications
with the Department have been mostly with the Water and
Wastewater Program, Clean Water Act, and the grant program.
The people he works with have been very helpful in getting
grants, audits, and inspections by the Corps of Engineers.
Number 264
ERIC LINDBOE said he dealt with DEC since he came into the
industry 13 years ago. He has seen their responsibility
grow as regulations have come down from EPA. As the
responsibilities have grown, the Department has reduced, and
is continuing to reduce, in size. The Department has
attempted to continue larger services with smaller staff and
they have done a marvelous job. The operator certification
program has grown beyond what they ever expected.
MR. HARGESHEIMER added that he thought DEC tries very hard
to do a good job. He said they are trying to implement a
lot of programs with fewer funds. He feels they need to cut
programs rather than reduce them, because the programs are
so lean now, that they would be better off using reduced
funding on select programs and fund them adequately.
Number 182
SENATOR MILLER adjourned the meeting at 5:25 p.m.
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